Oh and I do play a lot of games, which isn't Apple's strong point. Looking at the feature lists of Tiger vs. Longhorn, they don't look much different (and Microsoft claim Longhorn will be completely backwards compatible, as usual). Both are agreed that RDBMS file searching is the next big thing and both include lots of bells and whistles of little interest to me (though mention of Quicktime 7 has made me want to get my hands on the new MPEG 4 part 10 codec). The main gist I get is that Tiger will still have the flasher utilities, but Longhorn will look as good (it'll require hardware 3D acceleration to be rendered) and the Microsoft/AMD/Intel Palladium security measures, along with compulsory driver signing for the new features should mean Macs won't be able to claim better security and stability. By the way, were you calling that full desktop feature thingy expose or exposé when you were standing in for the sales staff in the Apple store? Vince